Re: [dev] Talk about sane web browsers

From: markus schnalke <>
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:35:50 +0200

[2009-09-07 11:50] Uriel <>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Ray Kohler<> wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Uriel<> wrote:
> >> You can't have a "sane web browser"[1] with an insane rendering
> >> engine. All you are doing otherwise is giving a turd another coat of
> >> paint.

> >> [1]: Of course there can't be a sane web browser, but a different coat
> >> of paint on top of webkit is not going to be any saner than Chrome,

I agree on: There can't be a sane web browser, because the modern web
is broken.

But I don't agree that something sucks completely if it sucks in one
part (that does not influence the rest).

> > I think it's more like, "You can't have a sane web browser with an
> > insane web".

> > It didn't
> > seem worthwhile to continue the thread there, since I don't really
> > want to convince browser programmers that their cause is hopeless -
> > and that's really what "victory" for me would look like on that front.

The point is: It is simply not possible to have sane web browsers. But
you both come to bad results IMO.

Uriel says: Okay, so we'll not have a sane web browsers, thus we use
one of the bad ones or better don't use the web at all.

Ray says: You web browser developers fight against windmills, that's
senseless; you'd better stop. (You think this, but you don't tell,

Both oppinions don't help us.

IMO `uzbl' _is_ an improvement, and in a kind sane. Because it makes
(broken) web browsers fit into the Unix environment!

Read my slides, I clearly state this: Take the broken render engine as
black box and add sane interfaces around.

IMO `uzbl' (without the render engine) is software that complies with
the Unix Philosophy as it (1) does one job, (2) uses software leverage
(works together), and (3) works with text streams.

It's the web browser that complies better with the Unix Philosophy
than any other I've seen. Only the render engine sucks (of course).
But it may get exchanged ... it's only a black box anyway.


I see `uzbl' as an example. It may not exactly be as I describe it.
(In fact, it has it's dark corners. E.g. `--geometry'.)

There might also be other browsers that are similar (surf).

Received on Mon Sep 07 2009 - 19:35:50 UTC

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