Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users

From: Christoph Lohmann <>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:44:34 +0200


On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:44:34 +0200 William Giokas <> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:59:18PM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
> > The »basic core« shouldn’t be using systemd or udev. You can boot Linux
> > into udevtmpfs and no init scripts without systemd and just a simple
> > busybox init. Then run and install whatever you like. Systemd is en‐
> > forcing dbus and systemd. They are now enforcing systemd for the basic
> > network management [1].
> And initscripts enforce initscripts. It's purely a matter of choice. If
> you want to build a system that does not have systemd but instead uses
> the now outdated and unmaintained inistcripts, then be my guest. You can
> still use pacman, makepkg, whatever, you'll just have to maintain your
> own scripts. Oh wait, that's what we had to do with systemd before it
> became standard.

If that’s »core«, then Arch Linux is clearly missing the meaning of

> > So if you really think Arch Linux is still keeping to what’s said on
> > that PHP page in a web wiki, well, you are blinded and seem to use Gnome
> > shell because it’s »light« and »fits your needs«. We have camps in
> > Siberia for such people.
> I use dwm because it is 'light' and 'fits my needs' because it does. I
> use systemd because it is 'light' and 'fits my needs'. I use Arch
> because it has both.
> Now if you want a system that does not use systemd, then have fun with
> upstart or initscripts.
> When you install Arch you choose what goes on it. There is no "YOU HAVE
> If you want to build it your way, do so. If it's not fitting your needs,
> then stop using it.

You can’t easily build Archlinux your way and it’s not modular. You
are using the rhetoric of the systemd authors, which slowly changed from
»you can« to »you have to« when systemd was adopted too widely. No,
it’s not possible to follow your pace; just because you change your sys‐
tem too fast because you are paid by some company to do so. You are
simply ruining Open Source.

If you want an Open Source version of Windows, well, do it, but don’t
ever write on a PHP web wiki page that your principles are »simplicity«
or that they are related to »Unix«. You want Redmond engineers creating
abstractions abstracting abstractions for you so you can call yourself
hip in the computer world.

If the only reason for you to use Arch is that it’s not installing 500
packages for you because you don’t want them, please stop ruining Lin‐
ux. We don’t need such users here.


Christoph Lohmann
Received on Wed Apr 10 2013 - 19:44:34 CEST

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