Re: [dev] Yet another "sane alternatives" thread

From: Cág <>
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 16:19:47 -0600

Sylvain Bertrand wrote:
> ???
> clang/llvm is a c++ abomination: a massive pile of c++ cr*p. If you
> dislike the GNU make, wait to read the c++ code of cmake, the build
> system of clang/llvm, not to mention ninja (something in the horrible
> python3 or python2). I am into llvm code right now, and I feel like
> working in an asylum: getting in the heads of sick minds, and I
> _really_ mean it.
> Your are aiming at replacing gcc (which is in the process of becoming
> of pile of steaming c++ cr*p), by an actual steaming pile of it!
> The _only_ benefit is to clean up the linux build system in order to
> ease the addition of alternative toolchains.
> Actually, it's even worse than not being suckless: I don't want open
> source software to be locked down by organized sickos who obfuscated
> critical code thanks to a language with a super complex and rich
> syntax.
> *Anything* c++ is _not_ suckless, actually light years away from it.
> Come to your senses, open your eyes!

I totally understand your emotions. A couple of points though:

1) LLVM and Clang have worked in our use cases, most of the time
even without patching.
2) CMake is big, it sucks, but for such a huge project LLVM is, it's
fine, it's a compromise. Just like LLVM is a compromise. It doesn't
fix bad code, which is the cause, it cures symptoms by solving
problems GNU created.
3) We need a C++ compiler for Mesa.
4) There are currently no other open-source toolchains that can build
the Linux kernel.
5) There are no C++ compilers written in C (or C99 so it can be
bootstrapped with a C99 compiler).
6) You are not required to use ninja or Python to build LLVM. In
fact, I did it without having both.
7) wmi, the predecessor of wmii, the predecessor of dwm, was written
in C++:

A suckless solution is something that works, and sucks less. LLVM
sucks less that the GNU toolchain. Unfortunately, for a desktop or
similar Linux project I can't think of something that sucks less
than LLVM. Unless you write a new kernel, a new graphics stack,
a new windowing system in ANSI C/C99, you are glued to using either
of these. Or Plan 9.

Received on Tue Dec 25 2018 - 23:19:47 CET

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