Re: [wmii] answers to IRC comments

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:39:59 +0200
"Anselm R. Garbe" <garbeam_AT_wmii.de> wrote:

> Welcom back in IRC, Uriel,
>
> I found following lines in backlog, but I answer them here:
>
> > 23:13 < uriel> here is my current list of gripes:
> > 23:13 < uriel> - Way to close with mouse
> > 23:13 < uriel> - All mouse actions require modifiers, which totally suck and
> > are unbearable in a laptop (try to hold alt while you drag the right mouse
> > button on a thinkpad), this
>
> That's a question of practice, like getting used to chording in acme. I use a
> thinkpad the whole day and have no problem with holding alt while dragging. The
> only problem which I can imagine occures for people with only 1 hand.
>
> > 23:13 < uriel> requirement is absurd and the borders and tag bars are totally
> > wasted areas for mouse interaction, at the very least a drag box is a must have
>
> This has been discussed already, read the mailing list archives why we dropped
> the direct mouse-only interactions (this has also todo with the upcoming
> editable tagbars in wmii-4).
>
> > 23:13 < uriel> - Resize should allow resize in any direction even after drag
> started
>
> That does not work unless you implement resizing through a reshape algorithm
> like rio does (on client appearance), which is totally inefficient and most of
> the time in the way and less tacit.
>
> > 23:13 < uriel> - Allow resize by drag on borders
>
> Get used to the current way. This is not planned anymore. Focussing a 2px
> border with the pointer is much harder, than pressing Alt and performing a
> resize or move.

Here, I agree to uriel. Having to press MOD is very inconvenient, and getting that border is not as hard as it is said to be. (in other wm's it works?!) It has nothing to do with getting used to it, as—at least to me this happens quite often—there just are a lot of those situations where you miss that, especially in floating mode. Yes, I /am/ used to mod-drag, and I like it a lot (I hate gnome for not supporting that, as I fail miserably every time sitting before my brother's desktop), but it is somthing that it is missing in wmii.

Also, /moving/ by mouse-only should be there, which is even more important imho. There's absolutely no need to hit a small border, and as it is impossible to turn of window bars at all, they should be good for interaction. Don't know if it would be better to use all of the bar for tagbars, or if it would be better to just use the tag's label, as I never worked with tagbars or something similar. But I suppose using only the tag's label and using the rest of the bar to move the window would be a very good compromise.

> > 23:13 < uriel> - To start a new client in a new view requires 3(!) steps: 1)
> > Start client in current view *yuck* 2) Retag client 3) swap to that view
>
> Sure, what do you expect? If a tag does not exist yet, a view can't exist for it.
> Though you can define a rule in /def/rule to tag specific clients automatically,
>
> e.g.:
>
> /Firefox.*/ -> 2
>
> This rule tags firefox always with "2", and safes you from retagging a client.

This is also linked to the fact that empty views are impossible. They would not only be convenient when windows are distroyed (mostly by accident or when dialogue boxes and windows are opening one after another–like it is the case with splash screens or opening dialogues. And you can't consider this always broken behaviour, as it is often justified!), but also it is highly convenient for opening windows with a tag without writing a rule for that. IIRC the only reason to not allow them was a technical one. And, frankly speaking, those »rules« are completely orthogonal to the idea of dynamic window management, as they need /a lot/ of predefinition and force me to quite a fixed layout. (I'm sure there are better options for that, but this needs LOTS of more discussion and a giant overall concept, and is here totally out of place)

> > 02:27 < uriel> about keybindings: I refuse to change the defaults, if the
> > defaults suck so much that are unusable, they should not be the defaults
> > 02:27 < uriel> 2) the problem is not to have to type it two times, the problem
> > is that you have two lists of items to keep in sync, which can create all kinds
> > of hard-to-debug errors
> > 02:28 < uriel> it is just too error-prone
>
> I'm not satisfied with the way it is, but after having considered all kinds of
> alternatives, it is the least sucking way so far, in wmiirc. See the mailing
> list archives for details.

Here, again, I totally agree with uriel. The sync errors /did/ and /do/ occur, and they /are/ hard to debug. To many, many peolpe. I am convinced that the current way is one of the worse solutios. But this discussion has already be held in another thread, and without a working alternative to show off, it is unneccessary to talk about that any further.

I think discussions are stiffled too often. It is good that they are held at all (which is really not a matter of course), but they are too often ended after some shallow stirring.

Greetings,
Denis