Re: [dwm] [discuss] Tiny C Compiler [offtopic]

From: pancake <>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:06:33 +0200

I think he was joking.

  (note the ':P' suffix in the string and the uppercase word).


btw I am mostly fart of listening ppl saying that Java is slow
and this is not true. Java is a virtual machine, so it needs
more memory to run, but this does not means to be slower.

People say that Java is slow coz the program load is sometimes
hard. That's because the need to load a 50MB JAR all the time.

The Java APIs are almost well designed and documented. Something
that doesn't happen on .net which offers lot of undocumented features
(im talking about proprietary apis).

Today most of common desktop java apps (eclipse, sancho, ...) are
natively compiled with GCJ which generates wonderful assembly and
can be as fast as C++ but more secure, clean and portable.

Java is perfect for enterprise environments because the only requirement
is to not loss uptime for the services and so.

Against .NET I can say that it is a not well designed VM. It has some
flaws on the IL (I was able to bypass the sandbox in some different ways
on .NET 2.0 and Mono (few time ago). I only reported the bug to Mono,
dotgnu was safe. But mono ppl told me that was a IL design problem and
the fix was just a workaround because it was not correctly specified.

BTW .NET makes hard use of boxing/unboxing and the stack access is really
*SLOW* . this makes .net a lot slower than Java. But Windows users doesn't
see this slowdown, coz the same reason explorer runs fast ;) It's buggy
and everything is loaded at bootup time.

Java7 theorically will implement the 'barcelona project' which will share
the classpath between virtual machines and signifantly safe lot of load

BTW there'r hardware implementation of Java (n770 supports it, but nokia
dosn't want to pay the license, so a bit of reverse engineering is required
to take adanvce on this).

On the way there are some JSRs to enhace the VM with some new opcodes to
make't support "out-of-the-box" things like .net does.

IMHO Java is a good language, well designed and documented, easy to implement
parsers, compilers, decompilers, etc.. I like virtual machines, but I understand
that they exist for a reason. C++ is pure shit IMHO I have written some apps
with it and I spend more time debugging than coding. C is lovely and pure,
assembly is cool but not portable and finally...

A month ago I had discovered a new language from the GNOME project. It is
called Vala[1] and the main idea is to implement a C#-like language (which
imho is quite flexible and easy to understand for fast development) and the
compiler just ouputs C with glib and gobject dependencies.

The cool thing of Vala is that VAPI (vala apis) are automatically generated
parsing the .h files of a tarball package (if it follows the GNOME syntax rules)
So you write your app in an object-oriented language and you finally generate
native code getting rid of the GCC optimizations without having to depend
on a garbage collector or a virtual machine, and allowing to directly call C
functions from it, so no need to build new bindings for Vala (which happens with
java, perl, python, lua, ....) So no dupped libraries :)

If anyone of you is bored and want to get a look on it I recommend it. It is
a really nice project under a cool idea. I have written a serious app with it
and the LOCs are less than you'll expect, shorting the development time. The
C generated code is not as ugly or bloated as you may think (only return
statements are unreadable coz the garbage collector emulation), but for the
rest you can easily write native apps using gecko, vte, gtksourceview,
gstreamer, poppler, etc...

PD: I know that this is offtopic and it is absolutely not KiSS, but not all
    humans can live with KiSS environments, and sometimes I prefer to write
    code in a higher language in an hour than spending a whole day for doing
    the same in C with leaks and so.

PD: Dont' blame me ;) I'm just broadcasting nfo

PD: Sorry for the dump. I needed to say this. I don't want to flame, just
    to light some people and stop listening stupid comments ;)




On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:28:16 +0200
"Enno \"Gottox\" Boland" <> wrote:

> 2007/10/17, T Biehn <>:
> > Open Office is JAVA :P
> Don't talk shit! Open Office is mostly written in C++, it only has
> Java Bindings.
Received on Wed Oct 17 2007 - 20:06:27 UTC

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