[dev] Re: Mailing lists sucks.

From: Mattias Andrée <maandree_AT_kth.se>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:40:14 +0100

One disadvantage with with NNTP is that the current
standard tools for sending packages are for e-mail
and mailing lists. Tools for NNTP has too be added.
Of course, you can always send patches manually.


On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 13:23:27 +0000 (UTC)
Black Rider <softwareworks_AT_use.startmail.com> wrote:

> El Sun, 13 Dec 2015 11:35:27 +0100, FRIGN escribió:
>
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:29:02 +0000 (UTC)
>
> > No, it's proof that you don't understand how to deal
> > with IMAP. And regarding size: My _entire_ suckless
> > inbox which reaches back nearly two years is only 68M,
> > which is a joke. I'm sure Google doesn't want to have
> > 68M stored on their servers, so that's why your inbox
> > fills up. You don't want old mails to sync anyway, so
> > make backups or use POP3 for strict archiving, or run
> > your own bloody mailserver. :P
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > FRIGN
>
> It is interesting to note that, often, when you don't
> like a certain tool as much as other person, the other
> person will automatically tell you that you don't know
> how to use it.
>
> I have my own email server and I also have inboxes with
> 10 GB of spare room. This does not deny the fact that you
> are the party filtering, storing, scheduling and
> organizing a lot of traffic your inbox gets regardless of
> how interested you are in each message.
>
> Regarding backups and archiving:
>
> * Reasonable email ways:
>
> 1) You use a pure POP3 client for reading your emails. If
> your connection is not good, you are in trouble, because
> you will be downloading lots of messages with a bad
> connection regardless of how interested you are in them.
> That means you will be downloading lots of messages you
> are not going to read under bad conditions. Not optimal.
> Definetively not an option if you are subscribed to many
> high traffic lists.
>
> 2) You use a pure IMAP client for reading the emails, you
> delete the ones you don't want, and you use POP3 or some
> syncing tool (including IMAP itself) for archiving to
> your workstation. It can be ok or not depending on how
> you handle it.
>
> * Typical NNTP way:
>
> - I use an NNTP client. I get a list of the new posts to
> the group, I click on the ones I want to read (which are
> saved to the computer on the fly) and mark everything
> else as read with a keyboard shortcut. This way is more
> or less like the previous 2) when done well, with the
> advantage of not depending on having to use an email
> account.
>
> Further considerations:
>
> - Mailing lists have multiple points of failure. If Alice
> and Bob are having a discussion on a mailing list, the
> conversation will be interrupted if any of the following
> events take place:
>
> ++ Alice's email provider goes down.
> ++ Bob's email provider goes down.
> ++ The mailing list service goes down.
>
> However, if Alice and Bob are having a discussion on a
> NNTP network, for the communication to be interrupted,
> every single node of that network must go down -although
> some messages could be lost or delayed if a significative
> part of the network went down at once.
>
> - The way you subscribe to a mailing lists is usually not
> standarized among mailing lists and requires you to craft
> one or two messages according to the mailing list
> instructions. A NNTP group has standarized subscription
> mechanisms that are the same across implementations and
> allow you to subscribe and unsubscribe with just one
> click. That means: subscribing to an NNTP group is less
> complex than subscribing to a mailing list. And yes, I
> have encountered mailing lists with bugs that messed the
> subscription and unsubscription processes.
>
> - NNTP networks automatically archive the conversations
> by design according to the policies of the operator, and
> make the archives available for public use. Mailing lists
> only do so when some cruft is added to the server to make
> it work that way.
>
> - Mailing lists usually draw a bullseye on your email
> address for spammers to practice their dark arts.
>
> - NNTP networks that don't require a registration are
> easy to spam away. The ones that require registration and
> user/password make the subscription step a bit more
> complex (as complex as, say, subscribing to a regular
> mailing list), but once you have a user/passwrod, you can
> subscribe to any group with one point-and-click each.
>
> CONCLUSSION:
>
> Mailing Lists are serviceable. I suspect email was not
> created to emulate forum-like communications, so that
> functionality had to be added over it. NNTP services seem
> to have been conceived to serve as forum-like
> communication and bulletin board like services straight
> from the begining and actually do much of the same.
>
> I don't think that switching from mailing list to NNTP
> makes sense from an admin point of view, if the solution
> in place is working. Gmane provides an NNTP interface to
> common mailing lists anyway. However, if I was setting a
> forum-like service for a community I were part off, I
> would consider NNTP first because of the marginal
> benefits.
>
>
>
Received on Sun Dec 13 2015 - 14:40:14 CET